Welcome Fader 77. Thanks for posting the info and look forward to hearing more from you.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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92
COBE cannot be 80 or more
by fader77 ina new letter no longer allows an elder to be cobe if hes 80 or more.
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62
End shunning or lose tax free status
by kneehighmiah inwhich would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
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Doubting Bro
Old Goat - take me as an example. I learned the TTATT when I was serving as an elder, stepped down to "care for my family" and still attend meetings. I haven't done anything against the WT rules with the exception of using curse words (which I did when I believed) and letting my kids play youth sports. I also now don't shun DF'ed ones, and am breaking the biggest WT rule of all, I don't believe they are God's Organization and am therefore an apostate.
Since I haven't shared my feelings with anyone at the KH, they continue to speak with me. If those thoughts were made known, of course I'd be shunned. That's fine, I don't really care about those folks and am already not given much attention since I went from active elder to guy who looks angry during the meetings.
What I'm most concerned about is the elders interferring in my marriage and telling the rest of my extended family that I'm evil and threatening them with explusion should they communicate with me if and when I decide to make my feelings public. I've seen too many marriages broken up over this stupid cult. That's the part that really burns me up. Also the double standard because the JWs will tell you that you shouldn't have to choose between your family and your religion when they are recruiting folks from other religions but when you leave, that's clearly not the case.
I've read all the arguments on the advantages of providing exemption from taxes for religious institutions and while I respect Mr. Madison's take on most things, I believe he is wrong on that point. They are all businesses and should be treated as such. Not banned, not regulated just not given the unjust preferential tax treatment. Or maybe I should just start my own religion and leech off of society too!
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End shunning or lose tax free status
by kneehighmiah inwhich would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
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Doubting Bro
- Apognophos - Yeah, I know that's why they changed the announcement. I'm not sure if one could make a case for slander legally or not (US specific) and given the courts favoring religious organizations it would be an uphill climb. However, making any announcement about an individual is a specific order to shun the person. It's important to note that shunning is not an optional activity but one that is mandated by their own literature. If a person refuses to shun, they can in turn be shunned. That person's marriage could potentially break up, lose employment and a host of other negative side effects as a direct result of the announcement. However, it would probably cost you more to litigate the issue than the actual damages. They will never drop shunning because that's the biggest way they keep people in, by holding their loved ones hostage.
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Doubting Bro
LOL - that's so funny! Your ability to parady the WT writing style is frightening!!
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62
End shunning or lose tax free status
by kneehighmiah inwhich would the watchtower choose if it came down to this in the united states or europe?
losing tax free status would mean losing millions of dollars.
ending shunning means people would leave by the boatloads.
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Doubting Bro
I've never understood what tax exemption status had to do with freedom. I pay lots of taxes yet that does not encroach my freedoms. By the government providing tax exemptions for religions, they are unfairly favoring them as opposed to other businesses. The simple fact is that religion is a business like any other business. To the extend they do charitable works that can be proven, I'm fine with allowing an exemption on that portion of their profits. However, the teaching of religious practices should not classify as a charitable work.
I agree the government shouldn't be involved in the regulating of religion. However, it does seem that many religions like Scientology and JWs seem to hurt people and then hide under the First Amendment. Freedom of religion should be equal to other freedoms. Here in the US, it seems that freedom is religion is more important than our other freedoms. They should simply have to face the consequences of the actions their freedom allows.
If I slander someone, I can be held civilly liable and could be ordered to pay damages. Yet when the WT or Scientology slanders someone by reading off their name as a person that is disconnected or disfellowshipped (or no longer a JW which is code) and the person suffers harm as a result, they are not held liable. It's not regulation in my eyes, they can do what they want. But there is a price to pay for every action.
I understand religion still has a highly favored status in the US. I appreciate the diversity of religions in my country and while I think they are all BS, they do provide a sense of community to some and some are involved in providing charitable acts (real ones not recruiting for their religion). I just think it needs to be balanced with the rights of the individual and as a tax payer, it pisses me off that I am supporting ANY religion by paying my share and the share they don't pay.
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CONGREGATION FLEECING RESULTS?
by The Searcher inhow much did your congregation and its bank account get taken for?
share your horror story!.
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Doubting Bro
Lump sum - around $45,000
Monthly payment - 1,200
However, they are starting a remodel very soon and those funds were already going to be used for the remodel so that one isn't too bad. Not sure if the monthly payment will hold up since I think at that level, they were going to pay off the sum owed in 5 years.
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The List, by "Prominent Bethelite"
by morloc ini occasionally pop through here to catch up on the latest, but this time i'm going to pop my own post on here.. some of you internet oldsters may even remember this.
my first experience on the internet regarding discussions about jehovah's witnesses and the watchtower took place on a now-obscure usenet group, before i eventually stumbled across hourglass2.. during those days, there was a poster who went by the name "prominent bethelite," an otherwise anonymous individual whom i remember most for an extensive, exhaustive compilation of date-oriented remarks, predictions, and expectations by the watchtower organization down through the decades of its history.. it became known as "the list" and it's definitely lengthy... but a fascination look at the abundance of errant statements made through the watchtower's history.. if you're curious, it's been available for a long time on hourglass2's site, and can be seen using the link provided below.. the list, compiled by prominent bethelite (1999).
that's about it for this stop through here.
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Doubting Bro
Marked!! Thanks
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89
Could There Be Another Mass Exodus From This Cult?
by mrquik init's happened before.
how much crap can any rational human being take before they just snap & walk away disgusted?.
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Doubting Bro
Nope. I do believe that they will shrink over time but it will be a death by a thousand cuts not a mass exodus.
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BOE re:Adjusted Process to Accelerate Kingdom Hall Construction
by TTATTelder inmay 12, 2014. to all bodies of elders in the united states branch territory.
re: adjusted process to accelerate kingdom hall construction.
dear brothers:.
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Doubting Bro
That actually makes sense from a business prospective.
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BOE: Re: Midweek meetings during visit of circuit overseer
by pixel inyou read it here first!.
to all congregations.
re: midweek meetings during visit of circuit overseer .
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Doubting Bro
Awesome news! LOL - the bellyaching about the 2 mid-week meetings during the CO visit was great but I'm sure glad to not hassle with that additional meeting anymore.